R: 0 / I: 0
>add documentation, debate and long hyphen — options
— means general topic without rules
i gotta rewrite the rules for /hr/ to make it sound greater.
>add documentation, debate and long hyphen — options
— means general topic without rules
i gotta rewrite the rules for /hr/ to make it sound greater.
R: 0 / I: 0
there are 3 different categories.
>discussion/chat/-
once /hr/ is completely done, you will be able to pick between 3 different taglines. These "tags" in other words are category that defines the nature of thread and how it is to be used. It's important to understand /hr/ is more of a serious board and spam is strictly prohibited with degenerate post behavior and unintelligent disruptive unfilfilling conversations. For "discussion" category threads, you can simply discuss anything historically curious or any historical events with intent of studying history. "No Fun Allowed and "Jokes" board rules exemplify that this isn't a place for average turdposters, but for academic conversations both for historical buffs hobbyists and researchers, students alike - everybody is welcome to post here in constructive critical analysis. Even creationists are allowed to post as long as the nature is "finding out" historical truths and whatever you yourself might believe you can post anything no matter how subjectively wrong it is to others. All that matters is that you do not quarrel, insult other users, get angry and do it for some superficial reasons like attention seeking, trolling or etc.
>documentation
This is a category that you use for OP (and OP alone) document in the thread history. Other users are not allowed to question or debate his narrative nor respond. These threads server as written by OP articles. They can be true and can have mistake, however since they are written by single user but that is its nature. You can discuss documentations in normal threads referencing them >> precisely through quoting id. Quoting threads is optimal way of using evidence or material to bring attention to something particular working similar to another feature of Online Bible that I will one day add here. To reference a thread just add the id under the two arrors >>55 like this.
>debates
Debates are threads with topics where users can converse on an academic question. Remember, no cursing is allowed. No insults, no memes. This is just for history nerds to document, debate and study history!
This is not a documentation thread but just normal thread to feature some text on jews that was made in Ancient Egypt. It made me wonder two things, "Was Moses historical figure in Israel?" and "What was opinion on jews back then from different tourists as well?" I've been researching this topic for a while.
Manetho was Egyptian priest in Ptolemic Kingdom who lived in 3d BC. He was an authority on the temple cult of Serapis. All of Manetho's original works are lost. What remains are purported excerpts from other authors who have quoted him like Flavius Josephus in "Against Apion". Hecataeus of Abdera has written an event about jewish expulsion. He also lived at similar timeline.
I will quote Hecataeus of Abdera first.
>ref.Diodorus Siculus, Book 40
Since we are about to give an account of the war against the Jews, we consider it appropriate, before we proceed further, in the first place to relate the origin of this nation, and their customs. In ancient times a great plague occurred in Egypt, and many ascribed the cause of it to the gods, who were offended with them. For since the multitudes of strangers of different nationalities, who lived there, made use of their foreign rites in religious ceremonies and sacrifices, the ancient manner of worshipping the gods, practised by the ancestors of the Egyptians, had been quite lost and forgotten. 2 Therefore the native inhabitants concluded that, unless all the foreigners were driven out, they would never be free from their miseries. All the foreigners were forthwith expelled, and the most valiant and noble among them, under some notable leaders, were brought to Greece and other places, as some relate; the most famous of their leaders were Danaus and Cadmus. But the majority of the people descended into a country not far from Egypt, which is now called Judaea and at that time was altogether uninhabited.
The leader of this colony was one Moses, a very wise and valiant man, who, after he had possessed himself of the country, amongst other cities, built that now most famous city, Jerusalem, and the temple there, which is so greatly revered among them. He instituted the holy rites and ceremonies with which they worship God; and made laws for the methodical government of the state. He also divided the people into twelve tribes, which he regarded as the most perfect number; because it corresponds to the twelve months within a whole year. 4 He made no representation or image of gods, because he considered that nothing of a human shape was applicable to God; but that heaven, which surrounds the earth, was the only God, and that all things were in its power. But he so arranged the rites and ceremonies of the sacrifices, and the manner and nature of their customs, as that they should be wholly different from all other nations; for, as a result of the expulsion of his people, he introduced a most inhuman and unsociable manner of life. He also picked out the most accomplished men, who were best fitted to rule and govern the whole nation, and he appointed them to be priests, whose duty was continually to attend in the temple, and employ themselves in the public worship and service of God. 5 He also made them judges, for the decision of the most serious cases, and committed to their care the preservation of their laws and customs. Therefore they say that the Jews have never had any king; but that the leadership of the people has always been entrusted to a priest, who excels all the rest in prudence and virtue. They call him the chief priest, and they regard him as the messenger and interpreter of the mind and commands of God. 6 And they say that he, in all their public assemblies and other meetings, discloses what has been commanded; and the Jews are so compliant in these matters, that forthwith they prostrate themselves upon the ground, and adore him as the high priest, who has interpreted to them the will of God. At the end of the laws this is added: "This is what Moses has heard from God and proclaims to the Jews." This lawgiver also laid down many excellent rules and instructions for military affairs, in which he trained the youth to be brave and steadfast, and to endure all miseries and hardships. 7 Moreover, he undertook many wars against the neighbouring nations, and gained much territory by force of arms, which he gave as allotments to his countrymen, in such a way as that everyone shared alike, except the priests, who had a larger portion than the rest; so that, because they had a larger income, they might continually attend upon the public worship of God without interruption. Neither was it lawful for any man to sell his allotment, lest, by the greed of those that bought the allotments, the others might be made poor and oppressed, and so the nation might suffer a shortage of manpower.
He also ordered the inhabitants to be careful in rearing their children, who are brought up with very little expense; and by that means the Jewish nation has always been very populous. As to their marriages and funerals, he instituted customs far different from all other people. But under the empires which rose up in later ages, especially during the rule of the Persians, and in the time of the Macedonians, who overthrew the Persians, through intermingling with foreign nations, many of the traditional customs among the Jews were altered . . . This is what Hecataeus of (?) Abdera has related about the Jews.
>ref.Flavius Josephus, Against Apion, Book 1.14
by Manetho
"There was a King of ours whose name was Timaus. Under him, it came to pass, I know not how, that God was averse to us; and there came, after a surprizing manner, men of ignoble birth out of the eastern parts, and had boldness enough to make an expedition into our country, and with ease subdued it by force; yet without our hazarding a battle with them. So when they had gotten those that governed us under their power, they afterwards burnt down our cities, and demolished the temples of the Gods, and used all the inhabitants after a most barbarous manner. Nay some they slew; and led their children and their wives into slavery. At length they made one of themselves King, whose name was Salatis; he also lived at Memphis, and made both the upper and lower regions pay tribute, and left garrisons in places that were the most proper for them. He chiefly aimed to secure the eastern parts, as foreseeing that the Assyrians, who had then the greatest power, would be desirous of that Kingdom, and invade them. And as he found in the Saite Nomos [Seth-roite], (9) a city very proper for this purpose, and which lay upon the Bubastick channel, but with regard to a certain theologick notion was called Avaris; this he rebuilt; and made very strong by the walls he built about it, and by a most numerous garrison of two hundred and forty thousand armed men which he put into it to keep it. Thither Salatis came in summer time: partly to gather his corn, and pay his soldiers their wages, and partly to exercise his armed men, and thereby to terrify foreigners. When this man had reigned nineteen years; after him reigned another whose name was Beon for forty four years; after him reigned another called Apachnas thirty six years and seven months; after him Apophis reigned sixty one years, and then Janias fifty years and one month; after all these reigned Assis forty nine years and two months. And these six were the first rulers among them, who were all along making war with the Egyptians and were very desirous gradually to destroy them to the very roots. This whole nation was styled Hycsos, that is, Shepherd Kings: for the first syllable Hyc, according to the sacred dialect, denotes a King: as is sos a shepherd: but this according to the ordinary dialect: and of these is compounded Hycsos: but some say that these people were Arabians.” Now in another copy it is said, that this word does not denote Kings; but on the contrary denotes captive shepherds: and this on account of the particle Hyc: for that Hyc, with the aspiration, in the Egyptian tongue again denotes shepherds: and that expressly also. And this to me seems the more probable opinion, and more agreeable to ancient history. [But Manetho goes on:] “These people, whom we have before named Kings, and called shepherds also, and their descendants, as he says, kept possession of Egypt five hundred and eleven years. After these, he says, that the Kings of Thebais, and of the other parts of Egypt made an insurrection against the shepherds; and that there a terrible and long war was made between them.” He says farther, “that under a King whose name was Alisphragmuthosis, the shepherds were subdued by him; and were indeed driven out of other parts of Egypt, but were shut up in a place that contained ten thousand acres. This place was named Avaris.” Manetho says, “that the shepherds built a wall round all this place, which was a large and a strong wall; and this in order to keep all their possessions, and their prey within a place of strength. But that Thummosis, the son of Alisphragmuthosis, made an attempt to take them by force, and by siege; with four hundred and eighty thousand men to lie round about them: but that upon his despair of taking the place by that siege, they came to a composition with them: that they should leave Egypt, and go, without any harm to be done to them, whithersoever they would: and that, after this composition was made, they went away with their whole families and effects, not fewer in number than two hundred and forty thousand; and took their journey from Egypt, through the wilderness, for Syria. But that as they were in fear of the Assyrians, who had then the dominion over Asia, they built a city in that country which is now called Judea: and that large enough to contain this great number of men, and called it Jerusalem."
>ref.Flavius Josephus, Against Apion, Book 1.19
Berosus 3d BC, babylonian
"…he set the affairs of Egypt, and the other countries in order: and committed the captives he had taken from the Jews, and Phenicians, and Syrians"
this also mentions expelling jews. Outside of these references jewish regards are very thin from the outside area.
Manetho's Opinion on Jews
Before I begin this, I gotta explain the general way /hr/ Historical Revisionism works.there are 3 different categories.
>discussion/chat/-
once /hr/ is completely done, you will be able to pick between 3 different taglines. These "tags" in other words are category that defines the nature of thread and how it is to be used. It's important to understand /hr/ is more of a serious board and spam is strictly prohibited with degenerate post behavior and unintelligent disruptive unfilfilling conversations. For "discussion" category threads, you can simply discuss anything historically curious or any historical events with intent of studying history. "No Fun Allowed and "Jokes" board rules exemplify that this isn't a place for average turdposters, but for academic conversations both for historical buffs hobbyists and researchers, students alike - everybody is welcome to post here in constructive critical analysis. Even creationists are allowed to post as long as the nature is "finding out" historical truths and whatever you yourself might believe you can post anything no matter how subjectively wrong it is to others. All that matters is that you do not quarrel, insult other users, get angry and do it for some superficial reasons like attention seeking, trolling or etc.
>documentation
This is a category that you use for OP (and OP alone) document in the thread history. Other users are not allowed to question or debate his narrative nor respond. These threads server as written by OP articles. They can be true and can have mistake, however since they are written by single user but that is its nature. You can discuss documentations in normal threads referencing them >> precisely through quoting id. Quoting threads is optimal way of using evidence or material to bring attention to something particular working similar to another feature of Online Bible that I will one day add here. To reference a thread just add the id under the two arrors >>55 like this.
>debates
Debates are threads with topics where users can converse on an academic question. Remember, no cursing is allowed. No insults, no memes. This is just for history nerds to document, debate and study history!
This is not a documentation thread but just normal thread to feature some text on jews that was made in Ancient Egypt. It made me wonder two things, "Was Moses historical figure in Israel?" and "What was opinion on jews back then from different tourists as well?" I've been researching this topic for a while.
Manetho was Egyptian priest in Ptolemic Kingdom who lived in 3d BC. He was an authority on the temple cult of Serapis. All of Manetho's original works are lost. What remains are purported excerpts from other authors who have quoted him like Flavius Josephus in "Against Apion". Hecataeus of Abdera has written an event about jewish expulsion. He also lived at similar timeline.
I will quote Hecataeus of Abdera first.
>ref.Diodorus Siculus, Book 40
Since we are about to give an account of the war against the Jews, we consider it appropriate, before we proceed further, in the first place to relate the origin of this nation, and their customs. In ancient times a great plague occurred in Egypt, and many ascribed the cause of it to the gods, who were offended with them. For since the multitudes of strangers of different nationalities, who lived there, made use of their foreign rites in religious ceremonies and sacrifices, the ancient manner of worshipping the gods, practised by the ancestors of the Egyptians, had been quite lost and forgotten. 2 Therefore the native inhabitants concluded that, unless all the foreigners were driven out, they would never be free from their miseries. All the foreigners were forthwith expelled, and the most valiant and noble among them, under some notable leaders, were brought to Greece and other places, as some relate; the most famous of their leaders were Danaus and Cadmus. But the majority of the people descended into a country not far from Egypt, which is now called Judaea and at that time was altogether uninhabited.
The leader of this colony was one Moses, a very wise and valiant man, who, after he had possessed himself of the country, amongst other cities, built that now most famous city, Jerusalem, and the temple there, which is so greatly revered among them. He instituted the holy rites and ceremonies with which they worship God; and made laws for the methodical government of the state. He also divided the people into twelve tribes, which he regarded as the most perfect number; because it corresponds to the twelve months within a whole year. 4 He made no representation or image of gods, because he considered that nothing of a human shape was applicable to God; but that heaven, which surrounds the earth, was the only God, and that all things were in its power. But he so arranged the rites and ceremonies of the sacrifices, and the manner and nature of their customs, as that they should be wholly different from all other nations; for, as a result of the expulsion of his people, he introduced a most inhuman and unsociable manner of life. He also picked out the most accomplished men, who were best fitted to rule and govern the whole nation, and he appointed them to be priests, whose duty was continually to attend in the temple, and employ themselves in the public worship and service of God. 5 He also made them judges, for the decision of the most serious cases, and committed to their care the preservation of their laws and customs. Therefore they say that the Jews have never had any king; but that the leadership of the people has always been entrusted to a priest, who excels all the rest in prudence and virtue. They call him the chief priest, and they regard him as the messenger and interpreter of the mind and commands of God. 6 And they say that he, in all their public assemblies and other meetings, discloses what has been commanded; and the Jews are so compliant in these matters, that forthwith they prostrate themselves upon the ground, and adore him as the high priest, who has interpreted to them the will of God. At the end of the laws this is added: "This is what Moses has heard from God and proclaims to the Jews." This lawgiver also laid down many excellent rules and instructions for military affairs, in which he trained the youth to be brave and steadfast, and to endure all miseries and hardships. 7 Moreover, he undertook many wars against the neighbouring nations, and gained much territory by force of arms, which he gave as allotments to his countrymen, in such a way as that everyone shared alike, except the priests, who had a larger portion than the rest; so that, because they had a larger income, they might continually attend upon the public worship of God without interruption. Neither was it lawful for any man to sell his allotment, lest, by the greed of those that bought the allotments, the others might be made poor and oppressed, and so the nation might suffer a shortage of manpower.
He also ordered the inhabitants to be careful in rearing their children, who are brought up with very little expense; and by that means the Jewish nation has always been very populous. As to their marriages and funerals, he instituted customs far different from all other people. But under the empires which rose up in later ages, especially during the rule of the Persians, and in the time of the Macedonians, who overthrew the Persians, through intermingling with foreign nations, many of the traditional customs among the Jews were altered . . . This is what Hecataeus of (?) Abdera has related about the Jews.
>ref.Flavius Josephus, Against Apion, Book 1.14
by Manetho
"There was a King of ours whose name was Timaus. Under him, it came to pass, I know not how, that God was averse to us; and there came, after a surprizing manner, men of ignoble birth out of the eastern parts, and had boldness enough to make an expedition into our country, and with ease subdued it by force; yet without our hazarding a battle with them. So when they had gotten those that governed us under their power, they afterwards burnt down our cities, and demolished the temples of the Gods, and used all the inhabitants after a most barbarous manner. Nay some they slew; and led their children and their wives into slavery. At length they made one of themselves King, whose name was Salatis; he also lived at Memphis, and made both the upper and lower regions pay tribute, and left garrisons in places that were the most proper for them. He chiefly aimed to secure the eastern parts, as foreseeing that the Assyrians, who had then the greatest power, would be desirous of that Kingdom, and invade them. And as he found in the Saite Nomos [Seth-roite], (9) a city very proper for this purpose, and which lay upon the Bubastick channel, but with regard to a certain theologick notion was called Avaris; this he rebuilt; and made very strong by the walls he built about it, and by a most numerous garrison of two hundred and forty thousand armed men which he put into it to keep it. Thither Salatis came in summer time: partly to gather his corn, and pay his soldiers their wages, and partly to exercise his armed men, and thereby to terrify foreigners. When this man had reigned nineteen years; after him reigned another whose name was Beon for forty four years; after him reigned another called Apachnas thirty six years and seven months; after him Apophis reigned sixty one years, and then Janias fifty years and one month; after all these reigned Assis forty nine years and two months. And these six were the first rulers among them, who were all along making war with the Egyptians and were very desirous gradually to destroy them to the very roots. This whole nation was styled Hycsos, that is, Shepherd Kings: for the first syllable Hyc, according to the sacred dialect, denotes a King: as is sos a shepherd: but this according to the ordinary dialect: and of these is compounded Hycsos: but some say that these people were Arabians.” Now in another copy it is said, that this word does not denote Kings; but on the contrary denotes captive shepherds: and this on account of the particle Hyc: for that Hyc, with the aspiration, in the Egyptian tongue again denotes shepherds: and that expressly also. And this to me seems the more probable opinion, and more agreeable to ancient history. [But Manetho goes on:] “These people, whom we have before named Kings, and called shepherds also, and their descendants, as he says, kept possession of Egypt five hundred and eleven years. After these, he says, that the Kings of Thebais, and of the other parts of Egypt made an insurrection against the shepherds; and that there a terrible and long war was made between them.” He says farther, “that under a King whose name was Alisphragmuthosis, the shepherds were subdued by him; and were indeed driven out of other parts of Egypt, but were shut up in a place that contained ten thousand acres. This place was named Avaris.” Manetho says, “that the shepherds built a wall round all this place, which was a large and a strong wall; and this in order to keep all their possessions, and their prey within a place of strength. But that Thummosis, the son of Alisphragmuthosis, made an attempt to take them by force, and by siege; with four hundred and eighty thousand men to lie round about them: but that upon his despair of taking the place by that siege, they came to a composition with them: that they should leave Egypt, and go, without any harm to be done to them, whithersoever they would: and that, after this composition was made, they went away with their whole families and effects, not fewer in number than two hundred and forty thousand; and took their journey from Egypt, through the wilderness, for Syria. But that as they were in fear of the Assyrians, who had then the dominion over Asia, they built a city in that country which is now called Judea: and that large enough to contain this great number of men, and called it Jerusalem."
>ref.Flavius Josephus, Against Apion, Book 1.19
Berosus 3d BC, babylonian
"…he set the affairs of Egypt, and the other countries in order: and committed the captives he had taken from the Jews, and Phenicians, and Syrians"
this also mentions expelling jews. Outside of these references jewish regards are very thin from the outside area.